Linguistic pedantry

[learnedax]

A couple of days ago when some octopus-related matter was touched upon in conversation, a coworker commented that he'd always thought octopi the proper plural, but recently heard that it was incorrect, and one should say octopuses. Having heard similar and looked it up before, I said that my dictionary accepts either. However, I wondered what the reasoning was, and so I looked at a few sites (e.g. here and here) that claim octopi is incorrect. Their reasoning is that since octopus is the Latinized form of the Greek ὀκτώπους, and thus the plural should be ὀκτώποδες, rendered octopodes in English.

Is it just me, or is that an inherently flawed argument? I would think that if we use a Latinate singular, regardless of its root etymology, we are compelled to use a Latinate plural*. If you wish to use octopodes, the singular should then be oktopous, shouldn't it?

*Or arguably an English plural, if we consider the word to be sufficiently adopted into the language and the English plural flows more naturally with our standard practices. In this case not only is there a standard of Latinate -us in -i, but -uses is clumsy and jarring.

Comments

Octopi and hippopotami with virii, oh my...

[chiefoperator.livejournal.com]

Cecil Adams' Straight Dope has an excellent piece on plurals: http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mplurals.html (sorry, not sure how to make that an active link). *Caution: has plenty of anatomical terms, if people care.*

It claims that Octopus in latin is a 3rd declension noun and that octopodes is the proper latin plural, but also in general supports the use of english plurals of foreign words.

I don't know enough to speak authoritatively as to how correct it is, but it pretty well covers the ground... Apparently "hippopotami" is fine, but "rhinoceri" is no good... And "virii" is just right out, for reasons which are somewhat obscure.

Re: Octopi and hippopotami with virii, oh my...

[learnedax.livejournal.com]

How foolish, that I didn't think to consult Cecil (or in this case his staff) . That certainly covers a lot of interesting irregularities, and is pretty clear in its reasons against octopi. How unfortunate. The general trend has seemed to be, and the examples they give in this article generally fit, to use the plural that is least awkward (provided it is correct in either English or the originating language)... and both octopuses and octopodes are fairly awkward. I guess I will try to wrap my brain around the latter.

Re: Octopi and hippopotami with virii, oh my...

[benndragon.livejournal.com]

I'll note that at my place of work (a baby pharma) virii is the generally accepted/used term.

Re: Octopi and hippopotami with virii, oh my...

[learnedax.livejournal.com]

Well, virus is apparently a unique or close to unique Latin word, and even Roman grammarians seem to have been in disagreement about which declension it should be... the plural is not attested anyplace, but viri is considered slightly less likely than vira, vire, or virora, each of which has its own problems. Again, -uses is just an awkward glob, so I can understand the desire to use viri* when you say the word all the time.

*(I'm guessing here that you are relating oral usage, and that the word is being pronounced vir-i, rather than vir-i-i, as radii or genii would be. The ii version is surprisingly common, despite being neither logical nor easier to say...)

Re: Octopi and hippopotami with virii, oh my...

[benndragon.livejournal.com]

Yes, we mostly use it in discussion (and we use the vir-i version), although on occation it shows up on overheads as "virii". The thing is, if you don't know Latin those "more likely" alternatives don't strike you as a pluralization, whereas virii is immediately identifiable as the plural of virus. That makes it a more popular pluralization, regardless of how technically correct it is.

Re: Octopi and hippopotami with virii, oh my...

[learnedax.livejournal.com]

I think viri should always be preferable to virii.

In terms of the obviousness of pluralization, I suppose vira is not as clear to an English speaker as viri, but it's really a question of whether you've encountered this particular special case before. Viruses is the only version that would be apparent to anyone who knew no Latin, and the others are no less obvious than genus/genera...